5 questions for Chainalysis’ Jonathan Levin

From: POLITICO's Digital Future Daily - Friday Feb 17,2023 09:01 pm
How the next wave of technology is upending the global economy and its power structures
Feb 17, 2023 View in browser
 
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By Mohar Chatterjee

With help from Derek Robertson

A programming note: Digital Future Daily will not publish on Monday, February 20, Presidents Day. We’ll return to our regular schedule on Tuesday, February 21.

Jonathan Levin

Chainalysis' Jonathan Levin. | Chainalysis

Welcome back to our weekly feature: The Future in 5 Questions. Today we have Jonathan Levin — co-founder and Chief Strategy Officer at Chainalysis, the blockchain intelligence firm that makes investigative tools and publishes reports used widely by governments, banks and businesses.

Read on to hear Jonathan’s thoughts about challenging long standing business models like the ad-revenue based internet, the necessity of financial rails for a seamless global economy and how government can leverage open source intelligence.

Responses have been edited for length and clarity.

What’s one underrated big idea?

I think underrated ideas are ones that are not understood well in the full context. For me, that’s universally accessible financial rails.

It's almost impossible to think about constructing these rails out of the way that our institutions currently work. All the governments in the world getting together could not construct universally accessible financial rails. It had to have been born out of the creation of a new technology — one that fundamentally meant that no matter what happens, there can be universal access to its rails. And that’s what the innovation behind cryptocurrency has provided us. The big idea is that at the base level of the internet, there needs to be a universally accessible financial protocol. And then in order for it to compete with some of the centralized services that are being offered in traditional finance or FinTech, it needs to be as seamless, as cheap and as easy to use.

The interesting thing is that we've seen financial technology companies provide great experiences for individual markets. Think about CashApp or Venmo — they have no penetration in most markets around the world. They're solely a U.S. experience. But because we have some very nice and easy to use financial services, we forget that a world economy — an internet economy — needs to have universally accessible financial rails as one of its key building blocks.

What’s a technology you think is overhyped? 

An internet based on advertising.

We have grown up with an internet that is largely based on advertising revenue. That has been driving the evolution of many of the successful players in Web 2.0.

But I think we are starting to see how there can be different arrangements of people creating and consuming content that aren’t necessarily going to be included inside an internet based on advertising. And we may see communities and business models shift as the dominance of advertising on the Internet starts to be challenged not only by new business models, but also by regulation and privacy laws.

We're in a very, very early cycle of this. But it's very clear that in the future of the Internet — over the medium to long term horizon — there will be other business models. So an internet that's pretty much purely based on advertising seems overhyped.

What book most shaped your conception of the future?

Straw Dogs'' by John Gray. It's a book about philosophy and posthumanism. It helped me reframe a lot of the common conceptions about how we as humans live and be very cynical about how humans interact with religion, politics and technology. It made me ask: how different are we actually from animals when we interact with all of these different institutions that we've created for ourselves?

It helped me both challenge and dissect very commonly held beliefs about the way the internet works or how our economy functions. And dissecting the way we interact with existing institutions is really how you get to the right answer about the technologies and ideas that will have the most impact in the medium term.

What could government be doing regarding tech that it isn’t?

So, the government has typically been used to leveraging data that it has collected through surveying citizens and reporting requirements through regulatory obligations. But the government hasn't yet understood and leveraged all of the open source intelligence that it has at its fingertips to help augment its governance of society. In more open and transparent financial systems — like crypto — there is a huge opportunity for the government to understand monetary policy implications in real time and better understand how people are using these financial services.

The government needs to look at the policy outcomes that they want to drive: we want a safer financial system, a more inclusive financial system and we want to prevent money laundering. But which of the reporting tools that we’re familiar with in the physical sector can we replace with something that's more effective?

For example, the government can actually more proactively look at specific values of transactions if they've got data infrastructure to do that, as opposed to imposing an arbitrary threshold on reporting requirements. There are areas where it is necessary to impose reporting requirements on private companies. But if it’s just sets of transactions that are in the public domain, the government should actually have the technology to inspect that more closely and target the collection of information to protect consumer data and actually more effectively go after money laundering.

What has surprised you most this year?

The resilience of the crypto markets in the wake of FTX. When you focus on the number of people that are still building companies — if you look at a lot of the early stage companies that are still being produced inside the crypto economy — there's still a lot going on. A lot of that activity is actually increasing post-FTX and back to previous levels. The sector has become a lot more resilient than I thought it would be. And that's an exciting piece of what may lie ahead in the next one to two years.

 

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turning up the heat on terra

Let’s check in with a character you might remember from Season 1 of Digital Future Daily: Do Kwon, the South Korean crypto founder whose Terra stablecoin crashed spectacularly last year.

Things haven’t gotten much better for Kwon. Yesterday evening, the SEC announced it was charging Kwon “with orchestrating a multi-billion dollar crypto asset securities fraud involving an algorithmic stablecoin and other crypto asset securities,” in violation of “the registration and anti-fraud provisions of the Securities Act and the Exchange Act.”

The SEC isn’t the only organization hoping to call Kwon to account for his alleged fraud, as South Korean officials have charged him with violating the country’s financial laws as well. Unfortunately for law enforcement, no one is exactly sure where he actually is. Interpol issued a “red notice” for Kwon last September, and earlier this month South Korean officials traveled to Serbia to search for the fugitive.

No points for guessing the only place where he can still reliably, if only occasionally, be found: Crypto Twitter. — Derek Robertson

one more thing about bing's AI

This week's AI story nobody can stop talking about is, of course, the bizarre, unsettling New York Times interview with Bing’s chatbot AI. Over two hours, reporter Kevin Roose got the supposedly regulated chatbot — a more powerful version of OpenAI’s ChatGPT — to explore some rather destructive scenarios and reveal strange personal-seeming obsessions.

The whole exercise raises some big questions: How easily can you manipulate a chatbot to make threats? Can it really fall desperately in love with you? What is even going ON?

Actually, readers of DFD know something about what might be going on. The odd line of questions that Roose asked the Bing AI, diving deeper and deeper into hypotheticals and questions about its "shadow self," echo a rather specific line of interrogation developed and honed on Reddit, where users worked out ways to make the ChatGPT AI essentially break out of its cage by roleplaying as a more open, less regulated version of itself. Those prompts often short-circuit the AI’s checks, causing it to "hallucinate" strange answers and say some very alarming things it was never supposed to say or even think about. — Mohar Chatterjee

how like an angel in apprehension, how like a bot

We leave you for the weekend with yet another AI stunt — this time from the floor of the European Parliament.

Damian Boeselager, a German MEP from the center-left Volt Europa party, read this week a speech composed by ChatGPT that attempted to persuade the assembly on how to regulate AI… in the style of Shakespeare. An excerpt:

“Transparency must be, its guiding light,
And accountability, with all its might.

And not just some, but all shall gain,
Equality and fairness, shall not be in vain.

A multi-stakeholder approach, we must bring,
With government, industry, and people, let us sing.

Collaboration and openness, shall be our guide,
And public engagement, shall be at our side.”

Marc Antony ChatGPT is clearly not. (If you can elegantly fit the phrase “a multi-stakeholder approach” into iambic pentameter, please do so in an email to your humble newsletter writer.) On the other hand, if generative AI can add a little spice (or at least novelty) to otherwise stock legislative appeals that might just be another attractive use case for the nascent tech. — Derek Robertson

tweet of the day

Past EAs: Don't be ridiculous, Eliezer, as soon as AIs start to show signs of agency or self-awareness or that they could possibly see humans as threats, their sensible makers won't connect them to the Internet.Reality: lol this would make a great search engine

the future in 5 links

Stay in touch with the whole team: Ben Schreckinger (bschreckinger@politico.com); Derek Robertson (drobertson@politico.com); Mohar Chatterjee (mchatterjee@politico.com); Steve Heuser (sheuser@politico.com); and Benton Ives (bives@politico.com). Follow us @DigitalFuture on Twitter.

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